Curse

DutchSmurf · Feb 25, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

One thing I did notice is that my ping was orange-red most of the time while observing. Never had that before, it is normally always green. Can it be that there was more lag during the tournament on all parts of the server then normal?

Zabe · Feb 25, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

One thing I did notice is that my ping was orange-red most of the time while observing. Never had that before, it is normally always green. Can it be that there was more lag during the tournament on all parts of the server then normal?

I highly doubt that it was caused by the massive usage of Alliance Battles because of the event.

Div · Feb 25, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by weis

Still so far I've only seen Americans bitch massively about lag.

Because Kaon's last attempt to bitch about lag ended up a little too heated and got deleted

That and Euros don't get as much lag in general compared to Americans, and the fact these forums are predominantly American.

Legally · Feb 25, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

That and Euros don't get as much lag in general compared to Americans, and the fact these forums are predominantly American.

Are you european?

red orc · Feb 25, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Reduce the number of NPCS. Will even their importance with other aspects of the game such as DP and flagstand control.

erk · Feb 25, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

I highly doubt that it was caused by the massive usage of Alliance Battles because of the event.

The lag on the American and International AB servers was huge, the European ones were much better. I played on both for several hours each on the weekend. If the GvG's were on the same server farm it could have been quite possible. Next time write down the IP address of the lagging server you are on so you can compare notes with the AB players at the time. Or even start a lagging PvP server thread so A.net have somewhere to look for problem reports.

C2K · Feb 25, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

The lag on the American and International AB servers was huge, the European ones were much better. I played on both for several hours each on the weekend. If the GvG's were on the same server farm it could have been quite possible. Next time write down the IP address of the lagging server you are on so you can compare notes with the AB players at the time. Or even start a lagging PvP server thread so A.net have somewhere to look for problem reports.

Lag can sometimes be your ISP. I remember one week I was lagging really bad only to find out my ISP lost a server and was working all week to repair it. There are so many random factors that can cause it, it might not always be the game. Though constant lag for different districts could be a "distance from server" problem.

Almighty Zi · Feb 26, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Regarding the talk about ping:

I live in England but due to my working times I have always played with American players. Being the only euro on the team (vs 8 other Americans) my char is always played from the American servers. This was never an issue for me as my ping would normally hang around 150..200. This was until around 5 months ago and since then my ping is frequently around 400 - which makes it really difficult to land interupts.

I haven't changed my ISP and we have a pretty quick connection. I can only concluded that Anet must have changed their servers - which wouldn't be surprising since they aren't going to be selling any more chapters.

Since ping is such an important factor in PvP I wonder if it would be possible have dedicated servers for GvG?

erk · Feb 26, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Lag can sometimes be your ISP. I remember one week I was lagging really bad only to find out my ISP lost a server and was working all week to repair it. There are so many random factors that can cause it, it might not always be the game. Though constant lag for different districts could be a "distance from server" problem.

Nah it wasn't that, the ping times were ok, it was server lag. I did traceroutes to the server IP's and they seemed about 300 which is normal from Australia, there were probably just too many players on, there were 8-9 full American AB districts normally there are like two. When you do TA/RA on the Euro districts they feel slower than id/ad which are the same server IP. Last weekend it was the other way around, Euro - English felt way faster.

It's the same thing that happened during the Canthan Festival, and I presume they have way more servers for PvE with 100+ districts active. Some of them ground to a halt and missed out on their hats... lol.

Next monthlies it would pay to record the IP addresses, only if they lag, so A.net can beef them up.

Akaraxle · Feb 26, 2008, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

That and Euros don't get as much lag in general compared to Americans, and the fact these forums are predominantly American.

Seriously, this has got to stop. Present evidence that Americans lag more than Europeans, because - by the current facts - it's total bulls**t. Even though your connections should be better than ours, I'm willing to come down to an agreement and claim that we have the exact same problems as long as you guys stop this bulls**t that "euros don't get as much lag".

State the type and up/down stream of your Internet connection. Play a match with a majority of American players (game picks American server), post your ping. Play a match with a majority of European players (game picks European server), post your ping. I or someone else - like Kaon - will do the same, and we can compare them.

Or, you could just do a gw -diag and post it. But until someone has undeniable, unbiased and untampered evidence, any claim is bulls**t.

Yue · Feb 26, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I like how there are more americans posting in the forums, but alot more euros that actually play.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 26, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Seriously what's there to discuss? Americans playing on Euro servers are going to have a higher ping than the Euros, the routing is going from N.A. to Europe, and vise versa, that won't change. I can myself say that playing on the Euro servers increases my average ping by 50-75ms, on Asian servers 100-150ms is added to my normal ping from America. My ping in general isn't too great considering it's routing from Toronto/Chicago, to freaken Texas...

America

Europe

Korea

erk · Feb 26, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

A point the last few posters glossed over, is that server lag often has nothing to do with ping, which just measures transit delay, and is usually pretty constant if your ISP isn't having problems. Server lag is to do with how busy the A.net server is, how much i/o, disk swapping, CPU utilization etc. You can have a perfectly reasonable ping and still suffer from gross server lag. You aint gonna measure server lag on a traceroute graph, and it generally only happens on busy weekends like when there is an AB promo or PvE festival and a zillion more districts are active than normal.

If the game feels slow, you know your computer is ok, and your little ping indicator is green, then they chances are that it's a busy A.net server.

The problems on the weekend didn't feel like ping related, as I posted earlier I played AB happily on the Euro servers, whilst the American ones lagged and I was rubber banding all over the place. The Euro servers had a higher ping, thats right higher, because I am coming from Australia and the US servers are closer than Europe, however the European servers had less players so they gave a smoother experience. Normally I would never bother with the Euro servers.

Overall there is little point crying about ping times, they are locked in by the speed of light and how many devices the traffic passes through each of which introduce a delay, the only way to fix them is move closer to the servers, but that wont help you if the server is running flat out with other activities.

Like I said before if you get a laggy server, write down it's IP, next time it happens see if it's the same one. And also see if it's the same IP when in AB, TA, HA etc. if it is then A.net can do something by re balancing the load between servers.

/EDIT You could always ask Andrew Patrick to find out if the mAT servers that gave trouble on the finals were being used for other activities as well like the AB promo.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 26, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Regardless of Anets servers crapping out, or points in time when many users are logged on you will still see increased ping times, and I think thats what everyone is complaining about. What you've mentioned Erk is just the cherry to top it off.

Div · Feb 27, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Seriously, this has got to stop. Present evidence that Americans lag more than Europeans, because - by the current facts - it's total bulls**t. Even though your connections should be better than ours, I'm willing to come down to an agreement and claim that we have the exact same problems as long as you guys stop this bulls**t that "euros don't get as much lag".

State the type and up/down stream of your Internet connection. Play a match with a majority of American players (game picks American server), post your ping. Play a match with a majority of European players (game picks European server), post your ping. I or someone else - like Kaon - will do the same, and we can compare them.

Or, you could just do a gw -diag and post it. But until someone has undeniable, unbiased and untampered evidence, any claim is bulls**t.

This has been discussed in great detail at QQ forums sometime ago. Americans playing on Euro servers = 300-500 ping. Euros playing on Euro servers = 50-150 ping was the general consensus. Considering if you have 8 Americans and 8 Euros, the matches are being played on Euro servers, and that's the context to which this is discussed. I could careless about daily ATs where games are played in your own continent. Americans playing other Americans on American servers or Euros playing other Euros on their servers, I could care less about since both teams are going to have similar ping. I'm talking about the mATs, where intercontinental competition takes place.

Zabe · Feb 27, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This has been discussed in great detail at QQ forums sometime ago. Americans playing on Euro servers = 300-500 ping. Euros playing on Euro servers = 50-150 ping was the general consensus. Considering if you have 8 Americans and 8 Euros, the matches are being played on Euro servers, and that's the context to which this is discussed. I could careless about daily ATs where games are played in your own continent. Americans playing other Americans on American servers or Euros playing other Euros on their servers, I could care less about since both teams are going to have similar ping. I'm talking about the mATs, where intercontinental competition takes place.

And I think enough of european people have also said that playing 8v8 euros and americans. Euros have higher ping than normally in the range of 300-500 too, (atleast me does and people who I have played with). Same thing goes to asian people, where there is always the so said "japlag".

But you still have to confirm the fact that this is HIGHLY dependable from the people. I have been in game where my teammate had steady ping of around 25 against japanese team, when everyone else on our team had over 500.

It is highly dependable from your ISP and how they do the routing as you all know it. So you can't really argue from this, because atleast from the QQ topics I noticed that some people in america can have a steady ping of around 5ms. So there isn't much to complain. But this is highly person dependable again

And ANet's servers play great part on this too ofcourse. I'm starting to think that could there be possibility to the system work so it would be "even" so that when there are europeans versus americans, the server is picked in asia. Dunno, just an wild theory.

And you can't count out the same territory games out neither. You can experience lag there too. I have had many times high pings in euro vs euro matches. But it is again my bad internet connection.

But, don't take me wrong here. I too hate the fact that high pings make interrupting etc. etc. etc. harder and stuff.

To the mAT question, I find answer to be hard to find.

Akaraxle · Feb 27, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This has been discussed in great detail at QQ forums sometime ago. Americans playing on Euro servers = 300-500 ping. Euros playing on Euro servers = 50-150 ping was the general consensus.

First: Europeans playing on Yank servers = 500+ ping. Yanks playing on Yank servers = I dunno, but certainly better than us playing on your servers for obvious reasons.
Second: I haven't seen 50-150 ping in a long, long while. Net performance for players in general has severely degraded since a few months ago.

Quote:

Considering if you have 8 Americans and 8 Euros, the matches are being played on Euro servers, and that's the context to which this is discussed.

You are wrong. Unless ArenaNet is lying, it's a coinflip.

Quote:

I'm talking about the mATs, where intercontinental competition takes place.

I'm not sure, but AFAIK there is no difference in server choice between standard matches and mATs. If bad luck strikes, or we're playing with an Yank player against a Yank team, then we'll lag like shit just like you would.

erk · Feb 27, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This has been discussed in great detail at QQ forums sometime ago. Americans playing on Euro servers = 300-500 ping. Euros playing on Euro servers = 50-150 ping was the general consensus. Considering if you have 8 Americans and 8 Euros, the matches are being played on Euro servers, and that's the context to which this is discussed. I could careless about daily ATs where games are played in your own continent. Americans playing other Americans on American servers or Euros playing other Euros on their servers, I could care less about since both teams are going to have similar ping. I'm talking about the mATs, where intercontinental competition takes place.

I think you are at a stalemate, Euros on US or US on Euro servers are always going to have a ping increase. The only solution is to run the mAT's on a server that is half way between to make it fairer. Of course then which side of the US or Europe you are on will still make a difference of 20-30ms or so. I don't like the chances of getting A.net to set up a neutral server for mAT's, though they could probably tell you which district the next match is going to be on so you can carry more/less interrupts etc. to try and compensate.

Div · Feb 27, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

You are wrong. Unless ArenaNet is lying, it's a coinflip.

If the fact that all few hundred of my matches where it's 8 Euros vs 8 Americans ended up in Euro servers is a coincidence based on coinflip, then so be it. Maybe I'm just unlucky that 100% of 8 to 8 matches are played on Euro servers. If anyone has screenshot evidence to the contrary, present it or else I'll maintain my stance that it's 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I think you are at a stalemate, Euros on US or US on Euro servers are always going to have a ping increase.

Duh?

Quote:

The only solution is to run the mAT's on a server that is half way between to make it fairer. Of course then which side of the US or Europe you are on will still make a difference of 20-30ms or so.

That's why I've been pushing for having matches played on Asian servers if it's Euro vs America, American servers if it's Asia vs Europe, and Euro servers if Asia vs America. That way we won't get this great disparity in lag. Regardless of which server it's played on in an 8 on 8 situation, it's going to be highly unfair to one team. For a match to be decided (to a fairly large extent) by a "coinflip," if it even is that, is just retarded. Look at SpNv vs ei, where both assassins lagged out because the game was played on American servers. Even if people don't lag out/not load, playing with 500 more ping is still a pretty big handicap (in fact this is one of the main reasons why the Japanese guilds say they only stand a chance with sinsplit/hexes).

The only reason why I bring up mAT is because it's much less likely for Euro teams to fight either Asian or American teams during daily ATs, so it's not as much of an issue.

JR · Feb 27, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

This has been discussed in great detail at QQ forums sometime ago.

Arguement over guyz. QQ forums sed so.